What the hell just splattered all over my comments box?
Woohoo!
I love it when that happens!
I post a nice little piece thanking Katie for recommending a funny radio show and pointing any Americans who might fancy a giggle at our own, English version of it.
And suddenly the comments explode into a debate about political bias on the radio.
And Robyn (yes, ROBYN!!) calls Rush Limbaugh a douche-bag!
Phreeeow!
That's gotta be my finest blog moment of the year!
Then when I turn my back to take the train home it all goes nuclear and Old Dive finds himself once again defending Islam against The Great Satan!
Gosh, I can't leave you kids alone for a minute …
So Yaay!
This is more fun than a busload of monkeys let loose in a nunnery.
I love my blogpals.
You are such a glorious cross-section of the insanity that is humanity.
Group hug!!!!!
Right!
Here goes!
Please don't anyone get offended by this:
First off: Left and right.
I'm a Marxist. Lifelong and committed.
If you want to pigeonhole me, I'm just a smidgeon to the left of Anarcho-Syndicalism.
That's about as far left as you can get without falling off the edge.
But …
I often find myself agreeing with the extreme right and would far rather sit and talk politics over a few beers on Prudence's patio than listen to one word of wishy-washy, beige, insipid, compromised tosh from the muddy pit of ignorance that is "the centre".
I believe in the necessity of extremism.
Let me clarify that a little.
In politics - as in art and music and indeed religion - everything worthwhile and interesting happens out on the edges.
It takes a while before the sharp edges get worn down and bits begin to spiral down toward the plughole in the middle.
Left.
Right.
It matters not a jot.
It is the radical ideas that drive politics and society forward.
Those ideas in the raw will scare the crap out of the general electorate but they get dulled and denuded over time and eventually reach close enough to the centre to become policy.
Give me a radical rightist over a "liberal" any day.
Now …
Islam.
You all know by now that I will accept criticism of Islam.
But only from someone who has read and understood the Qur'an and the Life of The Prophet and has learned about Islamic prayer, visited mosques and discussed Islam with Muslims.
I have said this so many times, people:
Study the source material. Do NOT simply listen to what somebody says about it (including me). They will have applied their own spin/agenda to their comments.
Read the source material and make up your own damn minds. It's what your brain is there for.
I will NOT allow criticism of a certain colour by a blind person.
Islam means Surrender To God's Will.
The same God of Abraham that is worshipped by Jewish and Christian communities.
Islam is a tolerant religion.
"There is no compulsion in religion" states The Prophet in Sura 2 of The Qur'an.
Islamic prayer (as opposed to "greedy" Christian prayer that actually presumes to ask God for favours) is simply praise and thanks to God for His creation.
Here we return to extremism.
As I have said, I believe in the necessity of extremism.
However … and this is a big however …
We extremists should never, EVER be allowed to assume power.
A single, extreme ideology in power gave us Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and gives us General Tanh Shwe, the Taleban, Robert Mugabe, the Janjouid in Darfur and the Lord's Resistance Army in The Congo.
I equate any extremist religious group (and yes I'm afraid, Shan, that includes American Christian fundamentalists) as necessary but potentially dangerous.
Islamic extremists (a tiny minority) have gained control in some parts of the world with disastrous consequences.
I dread the rise in power of US Christian fundamentalism (what I have termed the American "Christian Taleban") as I see its growing influence on government eroding individual freedoms at an alarming rate in the same way that the Taleban did in Afghanistan when they were still a minor group of religious scholars.
In conclusion, what we need is BALANCE, not COMPROMISE.
Unfortunately we all too often get a fudged compromise on important issues.
The idea of a balance between Prudence's Republican ideals and my own Socialist ones stimulates me far more than the political mush of centrist compromise that is our de facto western political system.
A balance between the three major Abrahamic monotheistic religions is desperately needed in the world right now.
Please do not let what should be informed debate degenerate into mere petty mudslinging.
A balance of extremes is far healthier than a compromise.
A compromise will never solve the issues and will leave those on the edges embittered.
This seems to be where we are at this moment of the world.
Sorry if that's offended anyone, but hey; I'm an opinionated bastard and I like to have a shout, too.
This was written in the heat of the moment, coming home to find a comment riot in my inbox, so please forgive any rantiness.
I still love all of you.
Keep commenting.
Love and kisses.
Lefty Dive.
xox
My Bible and my Qur'an say "Hi".In my house they are friends.
16 comments:
I see nothing offensive here, Dive my blogpal. I do tend to find myself in the center now and then, though, because I can often see both sides of any given argument.
I understand your point about the necessity of extremism, but isn't it compromise when two sides come together and are able to form one policy or work toward one common goal?
No, Robyn. A compromise is when the fresh, radical ideas are eroded, diluted and compromised (the other use of that word) to fudge an issue.
Balance is more difficult to achieve than compromise, but a balance of still fresh, radical ideas is preferable to a fudge every time (except liquorice fudge, of course. I love that).
Sorry. I'm still a little ranty and I've not had the chance to make dinner yet as I've been jumping up and down and shouting stuff at my monitor while I typed all that tosh.
Hee hee.
Bahhaha. I do so love a good ranting. I knew I was throwing chum out at the big fish for the gnashing. I just got home myself and have yet to read if I got pounded in the comment box of last post. XOXO It's all good. Well not ALL of it but you know what I mean. ;)
Mutter, mutter, politics, religion, mutter, mutter, snore...
If only people wouldn't kill each other claiming to be in name of a certain cause, then i'm ok with it.
Shan, of course you didn't get pounded in the last comments box.
I re-read your comment and I think I over-reacted for which I can only apologise.
I like that we are a balance of extremes. It's stimulating and fun.
Lynn: I'm with you on that one.
Those drugs sound like they're pretty good. Mumbling and snoring at politics and religion is a sign of recovery.
Carry on mending.
Oh, and you should have read the previous post instead.
It's got Sandi Toksvig and Melvyn Bragg in it.
nothing offensive to my reading either, sugar! it's good to talk and to discuss with those outside of our particular comfort zone. the exchange of ideas is often lost in the heat of zealotry and that is unfortunate.
i once had a discussion with a much published and well known philosopher about tolerance versus amelioration. his thought (i'm paraphrasing) was that tolerance by its very definition implied superiority of thought/behavior, whereas, amelioration was was the attempt to make things better for all. the discussion was in the context of relations between the west and the middle east. i do him no justice by my pallid explanation, but it was something that always stayed with me and how i observe situations and come to conclusions or solutions.
balance quite sums it up, sugar.
all this to say, i love the opportunity to "hear" diverse opinions and know that the people i share my thoughts with, even if we disagree, believe in our individual right to agree to disagree and still enjoy each others company!
xoxox
Jesus Christ Sundae. Boy Howdy. I'm gone for a week and it is blogapalooza week. Why do I miss all the fun?
Gasp! You said "no" to me! I'm crushed.
You couldn't have said it better if you had ruminated over it for a thesis and had it been one, I would have given you an A. Hear, hear monsieur professor.
I may regret this comment Dive dear because I rarely comment on politics or religion but hopefully the language is sufficiently non-specific for the most part that no-one will be offended. I've spent a lifetime working in one and I'm a novice on the other, mostly because I've a tendency toward science and direct proof is scarce. However this is far too exciting an event in the blogosphere to remain sitting at the radical edge. So, my contribution, for Shan especially, as she is still young, is to study comparative religion; study comparative politics. Question everything, including what the people who are teaching you have to gain from indoctrinating you in one way or another? It is easy for us to argue the toss when our lives hardly depend on it. There are so many others - to wit Myanmar (Burma) - who are dying through the bloodymindedness of its leaders. Vive democracy in politics, (with a marxist leaning because otherwise those at the top simply get away with far too much and those at the very bottom get nothing at all). Democracy at least gives us the chance to vote them out. Religion is far more complicated. There is something to be said for the test of faith because one needs a bucketload of it to make sense of just about everything. I do have many Christian friends who swear by it though, including one sister who believes that she can speak in tongues simply by giving her mind over to God and asking to speak in the language of God and not the language(s) of man. Now she may be right, who am I to judge? I am of Christian faith myself. I talk to God all day long and my way of praising Him is simply the Lord's Prayer, as the Bible teaches. I am a product of my upbringing you see which applies to those living in Pakistan and Afghanistan and throughout the muslim world. Rather than Satan, perhaps it was the tribal allegiances of those who wrote the Bible who were responsible for that.
I truly admire your marriage of the Bible and the Qu'ran to make your point Dive but have you had a good look at Shariah Law in detail? The radicalism of some of those judgements would bring bucketloads of tears to your eyes. I don't see the point in warping young minds with fear of fire and brimstone either. If the world simply rotated along the lines of the Ten Commandments, it might be good. Add tolerance and compromise and treating another as one would like to be treated oneself and there is perhaps a recipe for some harmony at least. Mankind's penchant for the seven deadly sins will always rock the boat though which brings me back to democracy (as opposed to communism) - phew! That was a circular argument which is what arguments tend to be of course. "Tosh": what a lovely, descriptive word. I love it.
Have a great weekend Dive et tout le monde. xx
Thank you, Savannah.
As ever, you are the voice of reason and informed intelligence.
It's Saturday morning now and I've calmed down a lot.
I just get way too angry and shouty when people criticise things they don't understand, especially - as it happens a lot - Christian friends criticising Islam when all they know of it is al Qaeda and the Taleban.
I'm guilty of that myself, especially with regard to American Evangelical churches but fortunately Robyn has patiently spent the past couple of years putting me right on that score, and now Shan's there to back her up.
Your philosopher friend is so right (it wasn't my hero Uncle Noam, was it?).
Related to that, I find we western, caring liberals are so self-righteous and superior and insultingly patronising to the people we "care" about.
As for agreeing to disagree, it seems to be what keeps Blogville together. I am so glad we're not just a smug little group who all think the same. Without the Republicans and Evangelists, this lefty blog would be a dead, boring place.
Happy weekend.
xoxox
MARIA! Woohoo! You're back from your enforced vacation! That has made my weekend.
I'll be over to read your post as soon as I've done here.
And yes; you turn your back and the kids run riot.
Robyn: I grovel at your rather cute feet (especially if you're wearing those fabulous pink plaid Converse AllStars).
You caught me in patronising mode with my rantypants in full swing.
What I really meant was "Yes!"
I'm so sorry.
Mea Culpa.
Mme: You are too kind.
I was shocked a while back to discover from Robyn (there is a loooong comment box debate about it way back in the archives that will explain it a lot better than I am about to) that she was only ever taught Christianity in school.
I was brought up a Christian with Sunday School and Bible study, but our educational system meant that we studied all the major religions of the world with no prejudice against any of them and were then allowed to make up our own minds as to what we felt was the truth.
Americans may be surprised to know that only one of us left the Christian fold and he ran away to India to become a Buddhist monk (he left me his jazz records so I didn't mind a bit).
Question everything. That is a wonderful piece of advice and ties in with my own rule of always reading the source material and making up your own mind.
I lost my faith a while back (as you'll all be sick of hearing about) but am still rooting about in the Bible trying to find it again.
The Lord's Prayer is a wonderful prayer as it is - in the manner of Islamic prayer - simply praise and thanks to God with a lovely little addendum asking that we don't make dorks of ourselves.
And the patriarchal, misogynist, bitter, squabbling, ignorant tribespeople whose traditions and bloody, rapacious history became the Old Testament certainly have a lot to answer for.
As for Sharia; like the Christian "laws" of stoning adulterers and blasphemers to death, they are a product of the tribal, primitive past and should not be applied today.
Having said that, most of Sharia is boring stuff about inheritance and property rights; essential if you have nine brothers and fifty goats to sort out but no so applicable to modern society.
The American Evangelistic insistence on sticking to Old Testament laws is as dangerous (and insane) as radical Islam applying Sharia in the twenty-first century.
Jesus taught one thing above all others: Compassion.
Everyone who considers themselves a Christian should remember this with every breath.
Boy, this has been fun.
Now I have to go into the city for breakfast and do a bunch of shopping for mum.
Ciao.
Bloody hell - I'm so out of the loop. See what being away for a day does!@!! I have saved your blog to my desktop and tomorrow (I'm having 10 people for dinner - so tonight is out) I'm going to sit back and catch up on the the shite - what fun!!!!
he he Dive yes i feel the drugs working at last. I'm getting back to normal aren't i? Feeling bit better inch by inch. Snoozing at P & R. I'm always interested in your ranty views though. I think my avoidance of these topics is due to that, worldwide and throughout history, no matter how hard anyone bleats or believes, nothing much changes ultimately. It usually ends in war and death. One can't help but wonder - what's the point?
you've just reminded me. A friend told me to listen to Radio 4 today at 12.30 and i think that's the programmer (repeated) which you're talking about. Hope i remember. I love Sandi.
Wow, Jules! You're really going to eat ten people?
What an appetite paddling your outrigger must give you!
I hope you enjoy them.
Hi, there, you with the hair!
Bollocks to politics and religion; we know what's important and that's having a giggle at Sandi Toksvig.
She always winds up fellow dwarf Andy Hamilton and there were some particularly funny asides this week, especially the Willy Wonka one.
Hee hee.
I'm sorry Dive. I don't try to make you angry. I just like it when you go off on a subject that you are so opinionated about and I like to hear those opinions. I was just telling what that book said and it was quoting from the different Islamic books so I thought it was interesting. I am trying to learn about "other religions" not just read only slanted info.
This takes time though and I am secure with what I've seen God do miraculously in my own life at times. He is a palpable presence to me. So I will continue having a personal relationship with him and grow in my education of the world to gain a better understanding of others.
I want to be tolerant and loving toward ALL others but never compromise my loyalty to Jesus Christ in any circumstance. I can certainly agree to disagree and believe there are many interpretations of the Word of God as well as the many directions people come from when it comes to politics. These things are not as important to me as the bottom line for me. Jesus Christ is my savior. All that's required of me is to glorify God. I'm not always good at this but His grace saves me from my own sin. That's all. I love my blogpals too :).
I'm sorry, I don't understand. I need to catch up on things, I suppose. What was the debate about?
In a way I feel privileged that I have been educated in the different faiths by people who actually live each faith and have sat with them in prayer, studies, discussions and ceremonies and guess what - fundamentally, I have found no difference whatsoever when it comes to each faith's bottomline.
Islam is such a beautiful religion - very much misunderstood by many a people, but then again, it's not the only that is misunderstood.
I agree with you, Dive - best to actually discern for oneself after having been to the source.
I have been gifted with the Koran by very good Muslim friends, and have written papers about Islamic practices as well for my Muslim Literature course in my doctorate degree. And I loved every minute spent doing the research for each of them.
I knew you'd say that!!!
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